Joe Biden — Presidential Candidate
It’s reported yesterday in the Washington Post.
I have no huge problems with Joe Biden. That said, it’s our job to make him hear what we want: progressive social issues and civil rights, fiscal sanity and hard choices in doing so, and imporved American image and decisions on the foreign policy [...]
It’s reported yesterday in the Washington Post.
I have no huge problems with Joe Biden. That said, it’s our job to make him hear what we want: progressive social issues and civil rights, fiscal sanity and hard choices in doing so, and imporved American image and decisions on the foreign policy and national safety fronts — no more wars for trumped up reasons and no more supporting folks who use WMD, as Republicans have in the past.
Does Biden have a chance? I don’t care right now. I’m much more caring about what message he hears from us.
Biden? (D-MBNA)? That one? The guy who could have single handedly stopped the most draconian piece of personal economic legislation in the time I’ve been alive? The guy who chose to vote the way his benefactors demanded? I’ve got two words for Biden:
Bankruptcy bill.
There is no way in the world I could or would support a candidate like Biden. Even aside the fact that I won’t forgive him for the bankruptcy bill, he’s BushLite when it comes to Iraq, and he’s in the pocket of not only the banks and financial service industries, but pharmaceutical companies as well.
No, there’s nothing to recommend Biden to a progressive.
If you’re a CEO of a multinational corp., he’s your buddy.
Biden (D-MBNA) lost my vote a few months ago.
I won’t vote for him in the primary or the general election. I will work for, and give money to, whoever opposes him, even if that challenger is a dead cat.
Biden can suck my dick, and probably would if I stored dollar bills up there.
yeah, what they said…
heehee nice one frenchy…
as a guy who grew up in delaware (and actually was a classmate with biden’s kids. i was actually his second son’s math tutor for a brief time), here’s my thoughts:
delaware is a weird state. it’s dominated by banking and corporate interest to a greater extent than anywhere else. in one sense, the banking industry is the hometown industry for the entire state. every politician has its hometown pork, and banking is it in DE.
but there is a question in my mind whether biden is really ideologically pro-banking or if he just toes the line because his future depends upon it (and it really does. as i said, DE is a very extreme version of the rest of this corporate-dominated country). if he became president, would his actual ideals shine through? or has he been so tainted by his associations during the last 3 decades in the senate that he no longer has any ideals to shine? they are open questions in my mind.
I was sincere when I mentioned that I don’t care about his past now, caring much more whether he listens to us in the future. We progressives will see zero candidates without blemishes. To some degree that is because we hold such high standards, and that’s good. In the end, though, pragmatic concerns will guide our choices, or we simply won’t win.
Is Biden the winner of our future? If pressed I would say “probably not.” But I want a lot of voices out there so that we can choose well, so I’ll not snipe at him this early in the 2008 Primary season.
While it’s true that most all politicians who rise to Biden’s level are beholden to their financial masters (in this case, the banking/credit industry), knowing this doesn’t inspire any progressive to vote for the man who ushered through the so-called bankruptcy “reform” legislation. The guy is simply too willing to bend over for the elite agenda whenever he’s called to do so. To me, this makes him part of the problem with the Big Money political system in D.C., and there’s no way in hell I’d ever vote for him. He’s just another smooth operator who lies by day and sleeps well by night.
Doc: I was typing my comment while you were posting yours. All I would add is, I’m with RC, who recently fell off the “lesser of two evils” voting bandwagon. And I’ll snipe at monumental sellouts like Biden until he foreswears his allegience to the rich. If he’s worthy, he’ll do the right thing; if he’s not, fuck him.
Biden is about as much for the average person as Darth Vader. He’ll have tns of money to run with, because the big corp.’s know he’ll bend over anytime, for them.
I had a comment, and lost it - but Frenchy, Michael and I are apparently of the same mind on this. Biden (and any of the other Vichy Dem Senators) who voted for the bankruptcy bill) won’t receive my support.
It’s not a “single issue” thing. What it is: indicative of an elitist mindset that is not in tune with my own. There are times for politics and there are times for doing the right thing. If Biden and the other Vichy Dems could not make that distinction when it counted, then they don’t deserve my support.
If you recall, I already let loose on Barbara Boxer’s Pac for a Change for the exact same reason. Post is here: http://allspinzone.com/blog...
I’d rather support Herr Liebermann.
Biden? Cute but grossly untrustworthy. I’m going to hold out for a leader who at least discusses cleaning up the Pentagon — taking most of its political power away, putting it on a severe diet, and revamping the military so it really is leaner, better trained for humanitarian tasks. Tough prerequisites but I’m damn fuckin’ tired of the role that agency plays in our lives. Let’s take back morality, for god’s sake.
Well PW:
I guess we could throw our support to Gepfardt.
I’m not yet inclined to rule out any candidate, though it appears I’m in a minority on that one. Some of Noz’s questions are interesting to me even if they lead to the same conclusions as the majority here. I agree with Doc that pragmatism is an essential part of capturing hearts and minds beyond the blue states, which are clearly not enough to shift the power balance among the electorate.
Eric’s sardonic comment concerning Gephardt addresses the point I was making earlier. We’ve got nobody on the roster we can’t criticize the same way folks are criticizing Biden here. Nobody. Conyers is too old and Obama too young. And I, for one, would rather not see us go into 2008 with zero candidates. None of this is to say I’m pleased with Biden, however.
This whole phenomenon is interesting to me. As progressives we are open to internicene criticism of this sort and feel expressing it is fine well before any election. The Republicans are different. They hold their criticism and tearing someone down until after elected and the person in question publicly critiques the leader, in this case George Bush. I suppose the only way for a Republican to innoculate on that is to be a woman and from Maine. Certainly the treatment I’ve seen of John Danforth of late opens the eyes as to what they do as far as loyalty is concerned.
Now to Biden, he can still be used. Oh, the bankruptcy bill he and a couple other dozen signed onto is stinging and wrong. then, there’s other issues that other Democrats join the Republicans with. Eventually, because Democrats truly do compromise a whole lot more than Republicans, you’ve got almost nobody left.
What’s the solution? To me it is important to have a lot of voices active into the next election, especially on the local front, and make no mistake, blogs are local as well as national. I don’t want one candidate silenced before he or she has even raised a flag. For instance, I’m not pleased with Hillary for a lot of reasons, but I think the health of her campaign may be important to getting out a number of issues between now and 2008, not the least of which is that she’ll be a lightning rod to Republicans, allowing much of the debate to escape their notice.
What role could Biden play in that large conversation? I suppose he and Lieberman play similar roles in representing the mainstream party, and I’m pretty confident those two will discredit that mainstream over time. That discrediting is vital to my image of Democrats being reinvigorated, for it must happen in order for the monied interests to switch alliances.
All well and good for us to say we don’t support Biden, but I support his entry into the race for lots of pragmatic reasons. This is EARLY, after all. Let him run. Indeed, I hope to see twelve or so candidates.
Doc, you need to take a look at what the delayed reaction of that draconian bill is going to be. We’re not even going to see it flower for 12 - 24 months, but I promise you it is going to hurt a lot of people at the low end of the economic spectrum.
The bill was morally reprehensible to begin with. For Biden to hold his nose (or drop his drawers, as the case may be) and vote in favor of it goes a lot further than just this particular bill. It tells me a whole lot about the politician and the man.
But hells bells, yes, he’s free to jump in, just as I’m free to screech about him and the other Vichy Dems.
Richard, I know what the implications of the bankruptcy bill are. I do not support it, nor am I a supporter of Biden, except that he be welcomed into the race. Frankly, I think the “likely suspects” such as he and Leiberman, are ripe to be taken down a peg, and that’s all to the good.
Surely the picture I chose would have shown something of my feeling for him?
let’s face it. if given a choice between biden and, say, frist, or virtually any repub candidate we would all go with biden.
but that doesn’t mean we can’t give biden a hard time now before we are forced to make such a choice. notwithstanding my above comment, i think it is fair to give the guy a little hell now about the bankruptcy bill.
i am not 100% convinced that he would be a bad president, or would even support such a bill if he were representing the entire nation and not just the nation’s tax-shelter state, but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t get shit for selling out so shamelessly, even if it may have been somewhat understandable given his constituency
let’s face it. if given a choice between biden and, say, frist, or virtually any repub candidate we would all go with biden.
Not all of us, Noz.
I guess you missed my screed last week where I said I won’t hold my nose anymore while voting for the lesser of two evils. I’ll make a conscience vote for a third party candidate.
even if it may have been somewhat understandable given his constituency…
His “constituency”, Noz??
His “constituency” consists of the people in Delaware who elect him, not MBNA. MBNA is a business interest that he’s obligated to assist to the extent that the interests of his constituents and MBNA intersect (such as jobs, keeping MBNA in Delaware, whatever). Last time I checked, MBNA has no legal standing to cast a single vote in any election.
(This comes back to Thom Hartmann’s argument - when did corporations become “people”?)
And Doc, I’m not arguing with you
I’m trying to pull down some of the strawmen in advance that everyone, from here on out now that Biden’s declared his intent, will attempt to construct.
I guess some Dems will overlook the MBNA/Bankruptcy Bill stance Biden has in the Senate. WOW! I am dissapointed to hear this. If that is the case we are screwed in the next Presidential election. People need to do their homework and keep up with current events. Like he said about DNC Chair Howard Dean, Biden does not speak for me. He is just another apologist for the crimes of the Bush administration.
I strongly support this whore of the loan sharks.
Perhaps the Credit Card Industry can supply the
Diebold ‘voting’ machines necessary to make it happen!
Welcome, Iron Gerbil.
We need Super Heroes!
You seem to assume that in 2007 and 2008 life in America will look pretty much the same as it does today in 2005. Well, it won’t. So, Biden v. Frist? Screw that, baby, neither one of those bums would get my vote. By 2008 the nation will be looking for a genuine leader with real demonstrated leadership experience (rules out almost all senators) who cares about middle America (rules out most politicians currently viewed as prospective presidential candidates.) For the dems, I’d say it might come down to Reid, Dean, or Mark Warner.
<i>His “constituency” consists of the people in Delaware who elect him, not MBNA. MBNA is a business interest that he’s obligated to assist to the extent that the interests of his constituents and MBNA intersect (such as jobs, keeping MBNA in Delaware, whatever). Last time I checked, MBNA has no legal standing to cast a single vote in any election.</i>
MBNA is the largest employer in the state. when you throw in all the other banks HQed there, and the fact that the entire state has a tiny population, much of the voting public in DE is very pro-bank pro-corporate. just as people scowl at you if you drive through detroit with a foreign car, there’s a general sense that people’s economic well-being is tied to the banking industry. take it from someone who grew up there. it’s really no different from any other one-industry town, except that DE’s one industry is corporate america
<i>Not all of us, Noz. I guess you missed my screed last week where I said I won’t hold my nose anymore while voting for the lesser of two evils. I’ll make a conscience vote for a third party candidate.</i>
i saw it. maybe. i dunno. we all go through that around this time in the election cycle. but when election day approaches and the vote’s gonna be really really close, most of us usually reconsider and find a way to compromise. maybe it won’t happen this time around. i’ve just heard too many people say it around this point every four years (hell, i’ve said it) and then 2.5 years later everything seems to cycle back.
i’m not saying you’re not sincere. i really think you are. but i’m also realistic. biden would be better than basically anyone the repubs would come up with. and, if push comes to shove, that will probably matter more to most liberals.
[...] early 2005, when Biden signaled his intent to run for president during this election cycle, I opined: There are times for politics and there are times for doing the right thing. If Biden and the other [...]